Voice Actors Need Speech Language Pathologists with Tessa Livingston

Stephanie Ciccarelli:

Hi there, and welcome to Vox Talk, your weekly review from the world of voiceover. I'm your host, Stephanie Ciccarelli from Voices. How well do you speak? Well, joining me today via Riverside is Tessa Livingston from New Zealand. Tessa is a voiceover artist who started her career as a speech language pathologist. This topic is really near and dear to my heart, and I am just so glad that Tessa is here with us today, looking forward to hearing everything she has to say about our instruments, how they work, and what we can do to care for our voices and maintain them for the long haul. Welcome to the show, Tessa.

Tessa Livingston:

Hi. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so, so, so excited to be here.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:

Tessa, you are a legend. You on LinkedIn. Just posting away all these useful things just to be sitting here talking to you is really great. I'm really happy about that. Anyway, I was just thinking about our audience and all the very interesting things that you could possibly share with them. And one of those things, I think, is just what is a speech language pathologist and what do they do?

Tessa Livingston:

That is such a fantastic question. We do everything. And what I mean by that is that when we get our undergraduate study, we get such a broad range across everything. We work in hospitals with people who have had strokes. We work in schools with children who have learning disorders or syndromes. We work in all kinds of places, and we also work in voice. So I guess you could wrap us up by saying we work with language and communication disorders from the NECAP. That's kind of us there.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:

Wow, that is really interesting. Yeah, you've covered it like, if someone has had a stroke or they've had some kind of various vocal disorders for any number of reasons, and just throwing some names out there people are probably familiar with. But Bogart-Bacall syndrome, you might have spasmodic dysphonia. You might have any number of different things that are appearing in your voice. You're like, oh, my gosh, what has happened to me? Or you might start to feel like something is happening to your voice. And of course, we never want to get to the point where something has happened, because that's a whole other thing. But as we talk about this and just the importance of recognizing that our instrument is very delicate, it's part of

Tessa Livingston:

Oh extremely

Stephanie Ciccarelli:

our entire body. Like, everything you do affects these little vocal folds that just are so dependent on keeping them safe. So what are some of the most important things that professional voice users should be thinking about when it comes to the health of their instruments?

Tessa Livingston:

Oh, great question. There's 8 million things. There's so many things we could talk about. But I think if I want to boil it down to a couple, vocal economy is one of them. So, like, how much you are using your voice throughout the day and what activities you are using them on. I think there's a little bit of a misconception that the voice should just be able to go and go and go, and that's not the case at all. If you're a vocal professional and you have a job in retail, for example, and you use your voice all day doing customer service, working in a dry environment, maybe using your voice in a heightened way, because that's what we do in retail. We're using it in all of these different ways, and then we get home and we want to do some voiceover or we want to do some practice, and our voice is just knackered, but we push through and we do it anyway. So it's understanding that the voice has limitations, and we need to make sure that we're measuring the way that we use it so that we can keep it at its optimal. Hydration is one of my other favorite things to talk about because we have the two we've got your topical hydration, which is breathing in steams and that sort of thing. And we also have systemic so making sure that you're drinking a good amount of water per day and keeping the vocal folds nice and healthy and all of their mucosal linings nice and happy so that when they touch, they can do the job that they're supposed to do. But those are definitely my two favorite, and my other third favorite is is breathing. Learning how to breathe properly.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:

Oh, my goodness. Yes. Like, you highlighted, like, the three major areas we all need to be concerned with. And just like, the idea that hydration doesn't just come through what you've put in your cup, it's literally steam, or it could be any other way of getting that moisture in. There's so much that honestly, so much that affects the voice. The whole instrument is contingent on us keeping a balance in those three sort of areas that you've mentioned, so as we're talking about all of this, obviously, posture is important, placement is important. Breathing. Oh, my goodness, breathing. Yes. I think even if you're a professionally trained singer, but you've taken time away and you haven't practiced your craft for a long time, it's really easy to fall out of those techniques that you learned to start speaking not from your diaphragm, but from your throat more up in here. Anyone can fall into this. There's got to be something about what we put into our bodies food wise or beverages that will affect us, too. It isn't just making sure you drink water. Like, you got to actually be eating foods or drinking beverages that are taxing your instrument and are not really helping it. So I've noticed, Tessa, that you are a fan of almond milk.

Tessa Livingston:

Yes, I am.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:

Just curious. Do you have something against dairy, potentially? Because I know that some of us can't have dairy. I'm one of those people. But why almond milk? Is there something that is more helpful for you?

Tessa Livingston:

Well, actually I have a bit of a sensitivity to dairy as well. So that is why I do have almond milk. I also just prefer the taste. I don't know if you have like Weetbix where you are. Do you have like a cereal called Weetbix?

Stephanie Ciccarelli:

Like Wheatabix?

Tessa Livingston:

Yeah, I think almond milk makes tea taste like Weetbix and I really like that. So that's part of why I do it. But it is a bit of a difficult topic in the speech therapy world or in the voice care world because lots of people will say the blanket rule dairy is bad for your voice. And that's just it. And I have been hearing that since I was little. So I've known that forever and ever and ever and it's really interesting to talk to other vocal professionals about it. Speech Pathologists laryngologists and what we've boiled it down to, my understanding of the research is that it's actually a person to person thing. So it's not a blanket rule that you can't have dairy before doing voicing. It's a how do you feel in your mouth, literally your mouth after you have had dairy? Does it feel thick and gluggy? Cool, you probably shouldn't be having dairy if it doesn't feel thick and gluggy. You're probably fine. And that's what it boils down to. What's actually happening in there, again, from my understanding is that the animal fat of milk is mixing with the mucus in your mouth and just making it that little bit thicker, which means that it doesn't move quite as easily. So that's my understanding on dairy; it is not as detrimental as people think. It's a person to person your own experience kind of thing.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:

I've heard that too. I'm glad you mentioned it because I was raised also to avoid dairy before singing or don't have cheese. But on those days when your voice is really dry in part you're like bring on the cheese because I need something to get that going, right? You need some kind of movement. So if someone's like, ‘oh, but cheese actually helps me,’ it's like, well maybe that's why because it was actually helping to prime the pump, so to speak. But what about caffeine? What are your thoughts on that?

Tessa Livingston:

Caffeine is another interesting one. Some people again will blanket say ‘no caffeine, caffeine is terrible.’ Again, what I understand from the research and my own personal experience. So as you've mentioned, I am a tea drinker, I'm a fanatic. Tea drinker is actually probably the appropriate thing to say. I drink way too much. I noticed that when I have tea I can feel a drying sensation on the inside of my mouth and it is well studied to suggest that it does have a drying sensation on the cords and surrounding structures. But the other thing that people need to pay attention to with caffeine is an energy crash. And this doesn't get talked about enough so often. We have a cup of coffee, we have an energy drink, whatever it is, and our energy skyrockets and we start using our voice and we feel great. And then we have an energy crash. And fatigue is one of the biggest indicators of vocal difficulty or not using your voice in the way that you should be. Everybody knows that when you start to get tired, your breathing drops off, you start getting tighter in the neck and everything just feels effortful. So that's probably my key takeaway from caffeine because as a speech therapist, I would never try to take anybody's morning coffee from them. That is not what I'm about. And I honestly, I've had people lie to me in clinic about how much coffee they drink because they're worried I'm going to take it from them. That's never, ever what I want to do. I just want to make sure that your energy levels are stable. And also if we're drinking lots of caffeine, it's a stimulant. So our central nervous system is a little bit elevated and that makes it hard to breathe and to operate at our fullest as well. So, yeah, caffeine, yes, it has a drying effect. Yes, it's a diuretic. It's going to make you go to the bathroom a little bit more. But watch out for those energy crashes. I think that's the thing that people are missing the most about caffeine. It's the energy crash.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:

Yeah, well, I remember years ago that I don't drink caffeine now, but when I was, I don't know, seven years ago or whatever, I was going from tea to tea. I need that energy because it's exactly what you said. It gave you a boost of energy, it helped you to get through the next thing. It felt good holding something warm in your hands. And it has warm and especially the sugar. Oh, my goodness, was I ever the sugar queen. I just dump, dump, dump, dump. I don't do it anymore. But the point being is like, when you have something that you love, it's so hard to give it up. And what you're saying is that you don't have to give everything up that you love to have take care of your voice. You just need to be careful with it.

Tessa Livingston:

Yeah, because I do. I really drink a lot of tea. I am black tea with almond milk. And on a bad day, I might have eight of those. That's a lot. On a normal day, it's probably between like two and four. But for me, tea is such a soother as well. It makes me feel good, it makes me feel comfortable. Like if I'm feeling a bit nervous about something, I'll sit with my cup of tea and it's a mental thing for me. So the idea of going, ‘hey, you can't have that anymore because it's a bit drying on your voice,’ is insane to me because I know that I can bulk it up with water. There's other things I can do. I can use a nebulizer to make sure that I'm getting that topical hydration. There are other things in place. You don't have to give up all the stuff that you love to be the best vocal professional in the world. That's just and like you said, voice is part of the entire body, so you have to make it fit with your entire body, and that includes processes that might not be the best for it.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:

Right. So that's amazing. I think people know, okay, dairy, see how you do. If it helps you, then keep doing it. Caffeine, see how you do again, but be aware of that crash that is going to come. That crash will come. But all that aside, the benefits of almond milk, even aside, because I know that that's a great beverage choice, especially if you are dairy free. Is it good for voice actors to be proactive in this area of vocal health and work with someone who's a speech language pathologist even before they're having issues? And why or why not?

Tessa Livingston:

Absolutely. If you are really serious about your vocal career, there is nothing wrong with going to an ENT or a speech pathologist and getting an assessment while you're healthy. Because then they have a baseline. They have a full understanding of what your voice is capable of doing when it's at its best, and then when something does go wrong, they've got something to compare it to. And it's just such a good way to make sure that you are fully looking after everything that is happening inside your throat. Because we don't know what's happening. The only way we can know is if we look, we can make judgments, we can have a perceptual judgment. Like, this happens to me quite a bit. People will say, ‘oh, well, I had a bit of a hoarse voice and I felt a bit strained,’ I'm like, ‘that could be one of 20 things. I've got no idea. I can give you some adjustments that might help, but I can't diagnose you without actually having a look.’ And I don't do the diagnosis anyway, the ENT does. So that's what I just find so incredible about that, is that if you are really serious about your vocal health and your vocal career, go and see an ENT. And I think they would love that. I would love that. I would love seeing somebody who's at like, at the top of their game going, ‘hey, I'm here for an assessment because I care about my instrument.’ I love that. That's amazing. I think that's so great.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:

Yeah. And and for I don't know if it's the same in New Zealand, it probably is. I'm just thinking about our health systems in Canada, New Zealand, probably very similar, Australia, but, you know, you have to get a referral from your family doctor to see an ENT. And then, if, you know all bodes well with the ENT which I've been to ENT a couple of times just if you get referred to a speech language pathologist it's because there's nothing structurally wrong within your instrument, but there might be some rehab that you need to do because there's just I don't know. It could be any number of things. You're over tired, you're not breathing properly, maybe you have digestive issues and there's some acid reflux and it's just like we have to straighten out a whole bunch of different things. That's what I've heard from speech language pathologists. is – it's really interesting of like how are you not doctors? Honestly, how are you not because you know so much, you work with the all the mechanisms of the human voice, just, you know, being able to assess and say, well, this is what we need to do. It's like an art and a science, I think, from what you're doing, so but everyone should go. The first time I saw an ENT was twelve years ago. And I saw the exact same one just recently. And he had his notes from twelve years ago to say, ‘hey, well’ and then I just was like, I want to see what's going on. Because my voice and I'd be honest with everybody here, but I just get tired sometimes a little easier, you know? And it's because I'm not supporting anymore from the right place and I had a background as a professionally trained, like, classical singer so that's my degree in music. And you can get into a habit of not voicing optimally, or you could not breathe as well because you've adopted the new posture we all seem to have with your head down your phone, but we're all susceptible to this. Do you have thoughts on that, Tessa?

Tessa Livingston:

Yes, I do. And you could probably see me being like, ‘oh, I have something to add’ with this majority of people that I saw in the clinic when I was working as a speech pathologist was it wasn't to address people's singing voices. It was to address their speaking voice. Because that is where so as someone goes to sing, they put in the correct posture, they relax, they get everything nice and warm, and they're able to use their voice in an optimal manner. What happens is that as soon as we drop out of that, we have these habits and behaviors that live in our speaking voice that cause the problems. So a singer would come in and they go, ‘oh, I've lost some of my high range, something's not working quite right.’ And I'll be like, ‘okay, cool, tell me about your day to day voice and what you do.’ And I just listen to the way that they speak and often the problem would come from their daily speaking habits as opposed to their singing habits.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:

Bingo. I think you get the nail on the head because so much of and I wonder how much, because obviously there's the syndrome, the Bogart-Bacall syndrome, where those actors, everyone knows Humphrey Bogart, Lauren Bacall, they would speak lower than normal for a lot of their roles. And they would do that for prolonged periods of time because it was what was in vogue at the time. And because they did that, they lost their upper range and the voice just kept getting bottoming out. It was just exhausting. It exhausted, I guess those muscles that are supposed to be speaking in your tessitura, where you're supposed to be in your naturally, where your voice is feeling most comfortable to be up there. And it could be higher than you normally speak, or lower, depending. But it just seems to me that so many people in voice over, especially those who may be in radio, may adopt a voice that isn't their normal voice, that they use as a persona on air that is lower. In most cases, I would say it's more often lower, especially like women and news anchor roles.

Tessa Livingston:

Of course

Stephanie Ciccarelli:

Anyone who's trying to sound more authoritative, I'll let you know that I probably in my podcast had spoken lower than I normally did because when you get in front of the mic, suddenly you can become a different person, like you're not who you normally are. And it's like, ‘oh, I got to put my voice on, or whatever.’ And it's like, well, maybe just try to speak a little higher or take a deeper breath. But the breath is the issue that is like I think the access to breath is often what is creating the problem of why we're getting so tired.

Tessa Livingston:

Well, it's a really interesting thing that you put forward that we do. We change our voices based on who we're talking to and what we're doing. It's taken me a really long time to move off of my teacher's sounding voice. So even if I was doing something like this, I would be away up here. And it took me a long time to just be really comfortable in the way that my voice actually sounds. But we put ourselves under so much stress when we're in these positions that we get used to being in these vocal postures because we're thinking about the way that we sound so much. And when we think about the way that we sound, things don't come together properly. If we think about relaxing the body and being authentic, the voice actually comes out in the way that it's much more familiar with in, a way, and in a pitch and in a region that is more comfortable for your body. A favorite technique that I use for this all the time is just simply a belly release. Belly release and pelvic floor release. So I'll be sitting and talking, and I'll notice that maybe I haven't taken a proper breath in a little while, or I can start to feel a slight bit of tension starting to come in on the sides of my neck, and I will literally let go of my abdominals and my pelvic floor, and I can take a breath in again, and my voice just drops and I feel so much more comfortable, and it really doesn't take that much effort. It's literally a relaxation of muscles and it puts me right back into that comfortable speaking zone.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:

That is fantastic. I just did that twice. Cool, right? You are absolutely right. Because it's like because I'm like, I'm going to do so while she's talking because like, ‘Hey guys, free lesson here, everyone. You should have been doing that.’

Tessa Livingston:

Yeah, free lesson.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:

So like if you just relax the muscles and boom, all of a sudden you have more access to you got that room for that tire that we like to think about where we're filling up with air right around the way. So amazing. That is really great. And I think that yeah, like if you have any more of those little tips, then feel free to pop them in now before we move on to our next question.

Tessa Livingston:

Oh, that's a good question.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:

Audience participation.

Tessa Livingston:

Yeah, audience participation. I think if you're listening to somebody talking and just like in the scenario that we are now and you're listening and you can feel a bit of tension happening in your throat, speech pathologists love. SOVTs. So, SOVT stands for semirecluded vocal tract exercise. The way that you'll see them the most is through bubble dips. But my favorite one for really, really quickly resetting the voice and quick moments like this is called the puffer fish. And this exercise is quite new to me, but I love it. So all you do is that you take two fingers and you place them across your lips as if you're kind of like doing a “Shhhh” sort of posture, but you're placing them flat against your lips and you're just going to blow into your fingers, let your cheeks puff out and do a little hum. So and what you should be able to feel is that you get lots of back pressure in the back of the throat and all of a sudden space just opens up.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:

Trying again. Yeah, you can feel something.

Tessa Livingston:

You can feel it. And if you can go up and down a little. Oh, that sounds beautiful and clean. Well done. What you should be able to feel is that the larynx drops so you get more pharyngeal space starting to happen. You're getting muscles coming off of the folds themselves and you're able just to gain a little bit more space. And also because you're putting in so much effort to your breath going against your fingers, you'll notice as you do that, if you want to try it again, your diaphragmatic support goes and it puffs up.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:

Oh, okay. Try that one way

Tessa Livingston:

It engages. So because you're blowing into your fingers and we're occluding that space so the air can't come out, our diaphragm activates, our larynx lowers, and then we just get that little bit of space again. I use it all the time on my own podcast. I will have been talking lots and lots and lots because that's what I do. And then somebody else will be talking for a moment and I was like, yeah, I don't even have to do it with my fingers now. Just sort of go with just my lips and I can feel the same thing. So that's one that I love as well, because you don't have to move away from your camera and go find a straw with some bubbles or all that sort of thing.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:

Straw with bubbles. There's so many techniques now.

Tessa Livingston:

I have sitting right next to me. It's always next to me on my desk.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:

I better get one of those to the studio, Geoff, need one of those.

Tessa Livingston:

Helpful. Yeah. That is amazing. I love it.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:

So we have a few more questions before we go and it's been so much fun. You you have to come back, Tessa. You have to come back.

Tessa Livingston:

Oh, my gosh. Yeah. Yeah. Good. So I'm having a lot of fun. So, SLPs, which I'm just using that as short form for speech language pathologists in case everyone has just tuned in. It's kind of odd because it's podcast because you probably listening the whole time. But anyway, obviously you mentioned an ENT. Ear, nose, throat doc. Is there like, I guess if you could assemble the Dream Vocal Medical Team, who would be on it?

Stephanie Ciccarelli:

The Dream Vocal Medical Team? Oh, my goodness. Oh, okay. All right. So we've got your ENT. Be really helpful. You want a psychologist because voice is so heavily linked into our emotions and the way that we think and feel about ourselves. It's astronomical how much your voice can impact you as a person. So you want a psychologist in there, they're really good. Especially ones who have an awareness of performance-based anxiety. They're really, really good. You want someone like that. You want obviously you want an SLP because we're really helpful. You want a vocal coach as well because SLPs will help with your diagnosis and treatment of disorders. But your vocal coach is going to enhance your supra voice of the voice that you use for performance. So you want one of them. You want a physio and you want two types of physios. Honestly, this team is going to be monstrous. You want a physio who is aware of your overall body structure and how everything works in that, but you also want a physio who is a voice physio because that's a special training in and of itself because they can help release little muscles in and around the neck to help reduce tension. So those are really good as well. Who else do I want on my team?

Stephanie Ciccarelli:

What about a chiropractor, would you have one of those?

Tessa Livingston:

Yeah. Not everybody's into chiropractors. Some people are. If you enjoy them and they make you feel good, absolutely go for your chiropractor. And also that doesn't count as a medical team. I was going to say a community of the voice professionals that you spend time with because they can be really helpful in boosting your confidence, your knowledge, all of those sorts of things. But that would be my team. Your ENT, SLP, Psych and Physio would be they'd be my core for that, you would add into your vocal team.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:

Wow, I love it. We're going to have to put that in the show notes somewhere. Like write it down and very good because you do need a team of people to help you with this, especially as a professional. You can't just leave it to, ‘oh, something has happened.’ You need to be on a maintenance plan, basically for your instrument. Right. So I like that and definitely the physical tension that tends to live in the throat, especially in kind of that Larynx area and is so brutal. You need a massage therapist, maybe even you're saying physio. But I'm sure there might be people who kind of bridge the divide, who are a masseuse or they're a chiropractor, actually, I have a really great chiropractor who knows a lot about that, who's worked with performers, actually, and like Broadway type performers. So it's really good. You just have to find the right people and people who understand your instrument. I think that's what matters. So as you have pivoted from being a speech language pathologist to a voice talent, what were the skills that you found were most transferable to help you as a voice talent?

Tessa Livingston:

Good question. Good question. I would say that it would be my ear, my ear for listening and my understanding of what the structures are and their actual physiological movement. So when I get a new voice that I want to try, it's like when I hear the sound of the voice, I can energetically place it where I think it should be because I can hear the resonance, I can hear the shaping, and I can then start to mimic and copy because I've got that understanding. So that's what's been really, really fun for me is an understanding of how I can place resonance in my own body by listening to somebody else's.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:

I think our voices are so important and just thinking about different ways that inquire we would put our hand cup over our ear and that's how others would hear you. But just having the ability to resonate your voice, that means that your vocal folds can vibrate. Otherwise it's voiceless. It's rather difficult. But I agree that the ear is a critical skill. I think listening in our business for any reason whatsoever, it's just so key to understanding what we do, even as a voice. It's funny, but as they say, God gave you two ears and he gave you one mouth. There's a reason for that, right? You got to be thinking, you got to do more listening at times, I think, and it also rests your voice. That's the other thing. So I imagine just like an athlete would train and by looking at things visually or thinking about their next thing or watching videos, is there a way from your perspective, Tessa, that we could use vocal rest time to still be productive and think about how we might use our voice better?

Tessa Livingston:

Yes, absolutely. So when we were talking about the three things before that were like, the most important, I'm going to add rest to that list. Rest is the other one because we have two types of rest. We have complete rest, so not doing anything, but then we also have active rest. And active rest is literally doing something like a little bubble and moving through your range just to give things a really good stretch. But I think there's not a lot of occasions as to why an ENT or a speech pathologist would actually recommend complete rest. Reason being is that we develop vocal difficulties through our behavior. If you just rest, all you're doing is pausing the behavior. Your laryngeal structures might get better, but then the second you stop resting, you go back to the behaviors that you had previously. So I'm a big fan of active rest and doing little techniques to help get things moving in their optimal way again.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:

Well, that's what we all want. We want our bodies to work as they were designed, right? You want to be in that place where I know that this is how my instrument is, and I'm really excited to use it the way it was intended. So, yeah. Thank you so much today, Tessa, for joining us and talking about all the various interesting things that we've hit on today. Very much looking forward to seeing you again in the future and before we let you go, because I know that it's the end of the show now, of course,

Tessa Livingston:

So fast!

Stephanie Ciccarelli:

but I know it happens very quickly. What is the best way for people to learn more about what you're doing and how can they find you?

Tessa Livingston:

Cool. So you can head to my website, so TessaLivingstonVoice.com, and you can also find me at Tessa Livingston Voice across all Socials. And actually, I'm really excited to announce that I have a new course that is coming out on my website. So it's “Introduction to Breath and Vocal Stamina.” It's a one month training where you get introduced to how the body works with breathing, how it works with activation, with diaphragmatic support. You get vocal health, vocal management and a good way to move forward as a vocal professional learning these base fundamental activities for your voice. So I'm really excited to let you know about that because it's, I've just finished my trial with a group of 18 students and we're getting some really, really good feedback. So, yeah, have a lookout for that.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:

Brilliant. That is wonderful. Well, thank you so much, Tessa. It's been so wonderful to see you.

Tessa Livingston:

Thank you so much for having me.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:

And that's the way we saw the world through the lens of voice over this week. Thank you so much for spending your time with us again this week. It has been a blast, as always. A very special thank you to Tessa Livingston for joining us all the way from New Zealand. Yes, all the way. As always, I'm your host, Stephanie Ciccarelli, from Voices. You've been listening to Vox Talk. Vox Talk is produced by Geoff Bremner, and we will see you next week.