How to Build a Successful Voice Over Business with Bill DeWees

Stephanie Ciccarelli:

Hi there and welcome to Vox Talk, your weekly review from the world of voiceover. I'm your host, Stephanie Ciccarelli from Voices. Are you wondering how to build a successful career in voiceover? Joining me today is Bill DeWees, professional voice talent talent and coach. Bill helps voice over talent to maximize their revenue potential without stress or struggle by drawing on his background in academia, marketing and talent development. And to top that off, Bill was recently named the most trustworthy voiceover coaching and mentorship resource in the Voice's 2021 State of Voiceover Report. Welcome to the show, Bill.

Bill DeWees:

Well, Stephanie, thank you. I appreciate it. I'm very excited to be here with you.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:

Wonderful. So I know everybody knows who you are, Bill. You really don't need much of an introduction, but you are like one of the best coaches for anyone who wants to know how to take their business to the next level, but also how to create a real business out of their voiceover aspirations. So tell us, what does it take to build a successful career in voiceover?

Bill DeWees:

That's a loaded question. And there are several things, and I just want to emphasize really what you said, and that is that I really do focus. I look at Voiceover as a business and it's certainly voice is the product that we offer. If you don't understand the business aspect and how to market that, it makes things a lot tougher. As I look at the business from my perspective, I see four areas that really need to be addressed. One is your product, which really encompasses two aspects. One is your audio quality. The other is your performance skills. So number one, you've got the audio. Two, you've got your performance skills. Three would be your lead marketing piece, which is going to be your demo or your demos. And then four is going to be marketing. So you've heard of the three legged stool? This is the four legged stool. And without all four legs, it's really hard to build a business.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:

So many things to think about. As people are listening to this, they're like, I thought this would be easy. Someone told me I had a great voice, Bill. I thought I could just do this because I can talk right.

Bill DeWees:

But that's not at all how it is. I wish it was easy. And I always say it's simple. It's not complicated. And that's the beauty of it. It's really not complicated. And I firmly believe just about anyone can do it if they understand and have a plan to do it. But in terms of easy, Stephanie, I don't think building anything is easy. It requires a lot of heart and determination and effort. And I think if anybody has a different expectation, they think it's going to be simple because like you said, they have a good voice. Or maybe they come from television or radio or a theatrical background. And frankly, I came from a radio background and I thought it was going to be relatively easy and boy, was I in for the shock of my life. It's not easy, but once you understand it, it's not complicated either.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:

No, it isn't. And you make it so easy with all the videos you have there on YouTube and just the coaching you provide. So happy that you are here. And we're on that note of just learning and building a business. And I actually saw this question on Social not that long ago, and someone was saying, how do you know if you're professional? What does it mean? Do you have to be paid in something you're professional? Or do you have to be doing voiceover for so long before you might be considered professional? In your opinion, Bill, how long should someone be doing voiceover or what kind of milestone might they have achieved in order to call themselves a professional?

Bill DeWees:

That's a good question. For me, the milestone is, first of all, have you been paid? Because really, I think the criteria for being professional at anything is have you received payment for it? If you have, technically you're a professional now, from there, there are certainly varying degrees of it, and prior to making that first dollar, it doesn't mean that you don't need to act professional. You've heard the old phrase, fake it until you make it. And when I say fake it, I don't mean to be a poser or pretender, but I mean, you need to learn how to do it, learn the craft of it so that you understand it. I don't know if you can hear my dogs are barking.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:

No, I can't hear them.

Bill DeWees:

I'm sorry. I was debating whether to say anything or not. And this is part of being a voiceover talent, I think, in 2022 is we're working from home and we're dealing with stuff. I'm in my studio, but my dogs are outside. They think they see something that they need to protect me from. I've been in sessions where this has happened, too. So for those who are freaking out, so afraid that something's going to happen during a session, what I found out is clients are fairly used to these kind of interruptions, but my apologies.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:

No problem. We will keep the doggies in the recording. I actually can hear them now, but they're so sweet. I also have a dog. Not here right now, but yeah, when she barks, she's barking. So I totally get it. And anyone who's listening, I'm sure you can relate to this, be it a child knocking on a door, a dog, some other thing, because everyone is around and schedules are different and we're still kind of in that time where people are getting back to what life was like before what happened.

Bill DeWees:

Yeah. Being able to deal with that is really a skill. And if you don't have the temperament for it, I think it's something that you need to learn. You have to learn to do because it is part of it. Otherwise you'll live a very stressed life worrying that somebody's going to flush a toilet, a dog is going to bark, a child's going to run past, a truck is going to blow their horn. There's so many things that could happen. But I'm sorry, we were talking about

Stephanie Ciccarelli:
How long professional

Bill DeWees:

Yes, thank you. Thank you very much. So certainly when you're paid, you're a professional, but before that, I think you have to carry yourself like a professional. You have to do the things that professionals do, such as get training, have good demos produced, and if you act like a professional, if you perform like a professional, you will become a professional. There is somebody out there. And I remember my first job came through Voices.com, and I'll never forget up to that point, I questioned whether I really had the capability of doing it. Would anybody? I thought it would be simple, and it wasn't. I did one audition, two auditions, ten auditions, 50 auditions, nothing's happening. And I'm thinking, Well, I must really be awful at this. What made me think that I could do this? And then the negative self talk. And then after about 100 auditions, I remember I got that first person who was willing to pay me actual money. And then I got the thought, well, if one person is willing to pay me, I bet there's another person. And sure enough, there was somebody else. And from there it grew from two clients to four and thousands and thousands of projects since. So that's kind of a long answer to a short question. But act like a professional from the GetGo and you will get to the actual paid professional.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:

I love that. It's absolutely true. You can't go about this thinking anything other than this is a business and I need to be treating it like one, be it the investment I make in my studio or in training, or even the amount of time you practice and hone your skills at home, there's just so much that goes into being a pro. So you were just saying that you had got your first job at Voices. I'm wondering, Bill, were you still working another job at that time? Was there sort of I was part time doing this and now I'm full time or how did you make that transition?

Bill DeWees:

Well, I had the misfortune of being downsized. I had a corporate job. I was working for a corporate learning services company. And so I come from I'd been in academia prior to that. And then I'd worked for a business consulting firm. And at this time I was working for this corporate learning services company. We would go into companies like Colgate and Caterpillar, and we would create high performance learning environments, train people in the skills and knowledge that they would need to succeed. And so I was doing that. I was working on a PhD at that time on education with emphasis on performance improvement. And then the company goes out of business, I'm taking classes and I think, well, I don't need this anymore because this career, at least at this point in time, has gone down the toilet. And I really didn't want to go back to academia. And I had worked in radio years prior to that and so I knew what to do behind a microphone. And I thought I had this secret desire to become a voice actor since the mid 90s. But if you go back to the I'm not sure that you remember this, you're probably too young, but there was a time way back when the only way to really get jobs was through gatekeepers like agents. And I lived in the Chicago area, but it was to get into the city, to a studio. That was something I didn't have the time to do because to hold down a career and to do the things that you would have to do in terms of auditioning and recording, I just didn't have time to do that. And I had a family to support, but in 2006, which is when I lost my job, the technology, you guys were online at that point in time and you really were beginning the revolution of bringing voice seekers and voice talent together in this new platform. If it wasn't for that, I would have never been able to achieve the dream that I had. And I had no idea what was in store for me. But it's been a fun ride.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:

Oh my goodness. I say oh my goodness a lot because you impressed me so much. Like just the impact, I think that being able to work online and doing your own business and it really is freeing, but you need the right tools and I think that's something that you talk about in building the business and knowing all that. So if someone were seeing themselves getting better and better at this voiceover thing, they've got another paid client here, another paid client there, at which point should someone decide or possibly know that they might be actually ready to do this full time?

Bill DeWees:

I was just posting something the other day regarding that. My comment was I would never wish it on anyone to lose their job to have to try to make something happen immediately in voiceover. I think the ideal scenario is that you're able to build your voiceover business to a point where you're making as much or more in your regular job and then you quit. And I have students who do that and some students who actually make more in voiceover than they do in their careers, but they just don't want to leave it because they enjoy what they do. But I will say this, and again, I'm not encouraging anybody to quit their job. But for those of you who find yourselves with your back against the wall, there is no greater motivator. When the bridges have been burned and you've got no place to go, it's amazing how resourceful and motivated you can become. And I was extreme. I had to become resourceful. I had to. I really had no choice. However, if you're in a situation where you don't have to do that, my advice, I think it's possible to make or exceed your current income, whatever that may be, in voice over. I think there's that much opportunity, and it may take a year, it may take a couple of years, but if you're not in a hurry to get out of your job, I mean, for goodness sake, if you can do both and like I said, I've got students who have done that successfully and have done quite well as a result.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:

Yeah, there's no shame in being in voice over part time. I know that sometimes people will just be like, well, if I'm not going full at it, then that must not mean I'm a professional. But it doesn't sound like that's the case.

Bill DeWees:

No, nothing could be further from the truth.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:

Wonderful. I think that's what everyone needed to hear. Somebody at least needed to hear that today. Wonderful. The next thing I'd like to ask you, Bill, is just how do we know if we're successful? Because we've talked about, well, getting into Voiceover, get some clients, do the training, whatever, but what are the actual metrics that matter most?

Bill DeWees:

That is such a good question, Stephanie. And I think the first thing to keep in mind is it's so easy when you're in any kind of performance type of field, to compare yourself to somebody else. You feel that if you're not doing what they're doing, if you're not doing the kind of work they're doing, if you don't have the kind of clients they have, if you're not making the kind of money they have, that you're not successful. And that's just not true. I think you have to define what success is for you. But also, I think you have to understand that success may morph a bit for you. For instance, you come into Voiceover with a very specific idea of what you want to do. For instance, when I came into Voiceover, first of all, I just wanted to get work. I didn't care what it was. I just wanted to work. But as I began working, I thought, I would like to do TV promos. I just thought it was cool. It sounded fun, and I felt like I had the skill set that I could at least learn to do it. So I found a coach out in Los Angeles, and I began working on it. During this time when this is all happening, I'm being booked in these other segments or niches that I really hadn't given much thought to. For instance, healthcare today, I would say almost of the commercial work that I do, I bet 75% of it would be for different hospital systems like Mayo Clinic and Henry Ford Health System. Oh, gosh, I don't know, maybe five or six other health systems. And then I do a lot of medical narration. For instance, in terms of pharmaceutical work, I probably work for every major pharmaceutical company. If you need them. I'm pretty sure I would say yes, I work for them. From Eli Lilly to Abbott Abby, Norvo. It goes on and on. My point being, I had no intention that was not my intention. I had no interest in that kind of thing. But what I found out, and this is one thing I always teach my students, is allow the market over time, over a period of maybe years, even allow the market to tell you what you're good at. When I worked in radio, you research music. And I remember as a program director, I was responsible for not only hiring and developing talent on air talent, but for selecting music. And there's a bit of art and science to it. And most producers have pretty good ears, and they'll tell you they can pick a hit song. They know a hit song when they hear it, but the reality is we don't. The audience will tell you through their requests and through the music they purchase. And sometimes we are shocked at how wrong we are and what we think is a great hit. You don't know what your greatest hit is as a voiceover talent until the market has had a chance to tell you what it is through the auditions that you win, through the jobs that you do, through the feedback that you get from clients. So what I find I do everything from character work, and I have done some TV promo work, but the bulk of my work is medical and pharmaceutical, which five years ago, if you had told me that, I would told you were crazy. There's no way I would be doing that. But that's what the market seems to like me for. So that has become my greatest hit. So that's what I do.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:

I love that, greatest hit. And some people call it their bread and butter voice. The one that books the money?

Bill DeWees:

Exactly, yeah. And sometimes you honestly don't know what that is until you've been hired a number of times for a certain kind of read or a particular kind of voice over a genre, perhaps, of audiobooks or whatever it might be. You may just have that sound that people are looking for. And it's funny over time. It's hard to see it in the short term, but when you have a real macro view and you can look at it over a period of time, a year or two, you will see trends begin to develop. And it may shock you, what you see, but you will see that people tend to lean in one way or another in terms of how they like your voice and how they like to use your voice.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:

Yes. So I'm just wanting to touch more on the question that I just asked you about being successful. And that obviously is a subjective thing. People have their own definitions of that. But let's say you're auditioning day in, day out and you're maybe, I don't know, auditioning 5-10 times a day, and perhaps you hit that 100 audition number that you said, I wonder if someone still isn't booking, should they be checking something in particular? Because you could go a lot of auditions later and still not be booking, so I don't know.

Bill DeWees:

Yes. At the end of the day, I have yet to meet the person that says, I don't want to make money recording voiceovers. Maybe that person exists. Stephanie but I have yet to meet them. So, I mean, whether we want to admit it or not, that probably is the most important metric to people, especially if you want to make your job. And there's nothing wrong with that, right?

Stephanie Ciccarelli:

No, I guess I'm just thinking about the person who is discouraged, though, someone who has been doing this a long time and hasn't seen any fruit of the labor. There's no thumbs up, there's no I've been hired, or no note from the client saying, you know, not this time, but next time, just that person. What can you say to them?

Bill DeWees:

So, yeah, directly to your question, the thing that you have to keep in mind if you're not booking work and by the way, it's not unusual for a brand new talent to go 100 auditions, a couple hundred auditions or so and not get work. But at some point you do need to start booking work. And if you're not, the first thing that I always have people do is get a check of their audio, the quality of their audio. I think that audio has killed more careers than probably just about anything else in voiceover, more so than lack of talent or skill development, more so than marketing, perhaps, because I don't care how good you are, if your audio is not of high quality, a high caliber, then you're pretty dead in the water before you start. It is a competitive industry, and even though we work from home, there is a certain expectation, and by the way, and I don't need to go down the rabbit hole on this unless you want me to, but when I say good audio, I'm not saying go out and spend $1,000 on a microphone. That's not what I'm saying. Certainly you need decent equipment, but the space that you work in will determine the quality of your audio more than anything, the quietness and how acoustically treated it is. And if you don't have that, again, I think that's the number one issue. And then after that, we can certainly talk about performance skills. And perhaps when working on a platform like Voices.com, it might even be in the way that you communicate in your proposals and the way you present yourself in that way. So there's a number of touch points.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:

There so much again to think about for talent. I'm just thinking like, yes, someone's audio is actually not great, but they don't know that. Is there a way to troubleshoot that? Or is it best to ask someone like you or another audio professional to take a listen?

Bill DeWees:

I would highly recommend having an audio professional, somebody who's worked around voiceover audio for a long time to do that. I mean, it's certainly something that I do. My son Alex is actually a studio engineer and what he does for a living, he works with voiceover talent and helping them to get the best audio out of the I'm not trying to make a plug for him necessarily, but my point is there are people like that out there that will do that assessment for you and they can help you recommend how to set up your audio and your audio chain to get the most out of what you have.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:

All right, so those are really excellent points. I think that there's probably an entire episode built where we could have you back just to talk about studio and how to set it up.

Bill DeWees:

I would love to.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:

Yeah, we'll do it. We'll do it. Everyone. Remember, we're going to do it. But I have more questions in this area of just how to be successful in voiceover. So this might be kind of like a topic that someone has thought of. It could, for some, be the elephant in the room. But does a Voice Talent need an agent to make ends meet? And can you still do well even if you don't have one?

Bill DeWees:

So the answer do you need an agent? Is absolutely no. All caps followed by an exclamation mark, bolded and underlined. You do not. Does that mean agents are bad? No, absolutely not. I think having an agent or agents as part of your marketing mix, you need to have multiple marketing channels. And I call it the marketing wheel. Think of having, like, a bicycle tire with spokes. One spoke is not going to provide you with a very smooth and dependable ride. But when you get several spokes, the more spokes you have, the smoother the ride becomes. But it used to be again, if we go back to a few decades, they were the gatekeepers. Technology has completely obliterated the old business model and how and not just voiceover. I mean business in general. It's flattened organizations because now we can communicate. We have all these ways of working collaboratively with people. I just did a session with a client in Italy earlier today. Can you imagine having done that 20-30 years ago? It's just a whole new thing and it wasn't done through an agency. So what that does mean, Stephanie, is that you have to become your own agent and you have to understand marketing and be able to execute a marketing plan.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:

Marketing is very important underline bold. Italicized like there's so much to the business of voiceover that is simply getting yourself out there. And I know that talent agents are important. They do play a role in someone's success, but they do not determine your success entirely. And that's just another like it has driven me up the wall, Bill, over the years. When people think that they can't do well in this business unless they're repped, unless they're in a union or a guild. The whole idea of what is a professional? Are you professional if you're not in the union? Like, oh, people would struggle with this. They think that, well, this is the next rung on the ladder. Like, I need to climb up to that point or even just to get to that point. I don't even want to say necessarily it's a ladder because that means that there's only one way to go, and everyone's got to go up that ladder to get to what success means for them. But it just seems like that has been a perception that has just been around for a long time. And of course, as you said gatekeepers before, the only way to get the work was if you had a talent agent and you got brought in front of the casting directors and all of that sort of thing. But just leading into this whole area of people feeling and maybe it's more of just they feel that they need to be doing these things or else they're not professional. But that's not true. And you don't have to be in a union to be successful. I've seen it. You've seen it. But some people are afraid that if they don't fit the mold of what someone else out there who's very successful booking big jobs with big brands and talking about all the work they're doing, they think that they have to follow the same path as that person to be successful. But that, of course, is not true.

Bill DeWees:

And that breaks my heart, and it frustrates me when I see it happen, because you're right, it's an ongoing thing. And new talent need to be very careful about who they listen to. There are a lot of voices out there, and you have to understand that there are a number of voices who have a very I call them institutionalized voiceover talent. They have a vested interest in keeping things the way they used to be. And so they will say things, and they will try to make you feel like you need to do things a certain way. I'll take the heat on this one. But you have to understand, they're trying to preserve what they have because they're afraid of this new business model. And it's just like, think about taxi cabs and Uber. It's the exact same thing we used to take when we had to get a ride and we didn't have our own car. We need somebody else to take us. We called a cab or a taxi. Well, today you call an Uber. Well, Uber, you get them a lot cheaper. They're more convenient. You can use your telephone in an app to use the service and to pay. But what happened? Well, it put taxis and cabs, for the most part not completely, but for the most part, out of business. But that's what technology does. And the one thing that I think we have to learn from history and technology is that technology always wins. It may hurt us sometimes, and we may get angry and we may get frustrated, but technology always wins. So you have to decide, am I going to complain and gripe and be a victim? Or am I going to learn to leverage the technology to my advantage? And I suggest you do the latter, because, believe me, what we see today and then, Stephanie, I'm sure you would agree, ten years from now, it's going to look different again. Things always change, and you've got to either you evolve or you die.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:

Yes, absolutely. Change. Don't get me started. We'll have another conversation built just about that. We will have you back. I'm already thinking, what does Bill think about AI voice? That's already going through my head.

Bill DeWees:

Yeah, I've got thoughts.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:

We'll have a conversation.

Bill DeWees:

Okay. For sure.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:

All right. Well, while we're still talking about this particular one, I know that people are worried about where their health insurance is going to come from, how they're going to pay the bills. They get really interested in this idea of residuals and just get money in the mail. Mail money. Right. But as you said, there's a ton of potential out there for everyone. It doesn't matter your union status, whether you're represented by an agent or not, whether you have 20 agents or zero, you can still determine how you shape your business. And if you are working really hard at it, you're talented, you're dedicated. Then the work will start to come in, you'll see the results, and you will be able to pay for your own health plan. Would you say that talent can do that if they're not union?

Bill DeWees:

I have. And again, I know plenty of people and plenty of students who do that. And I think you have to understand that this is a numbers game. Again, as a business person, I'm looking at percentages. Think of it this way professional gamblers versus recreational gamblers. Recreational gamblers go for the glitz and the glamor and for the fun. Professional gamblers, what they do is mostly very boring stuff because they play the numbers. They do the tedious stuff that nobody else would want to do, because they understand if they play the numbers, that they'll be profitable and in voiceover. Having an agent as your only source of income, the numbers are against you, are stacked against you astronomically before you even begin. That's why you have to diversify. And you must have different marketing channels, otherwise your odds of being successful just dramatically dropped. But if you're willing to actually execute a marketing plan, not a complicated marketing plan, your odds dramatically increase. And definitely, like you said, it takes a little time. You build the business, but I save, I invest, I've been able to have a good health plan for my family, all without the help of a union or agent.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:

Breath of fresh air. Bill, DeWees, you are a breath of fresh air, because people will get stuck in that mindset that if it's not this way, then it's not possible, or if I don't do it this way, then I'm not doing the right thing. And that isn't at all how it is. Anyone out there who's considering, should I go union or not? Do I need an agent or not? Just listen to everything you're hearing. Certainly talk to people who are on both ends of the spectrum and see how it's working for them and whatever works for them may not work for you. Or maybe there's a hybrid sort of thing you could do or you're just kind of maybe one day you plan to do this or what have you, but you don't have to do something just because there's a group of people who definitely love one side or the other,

Bill DeWees:

Right. And don't allow yourself to be intimidated just because somebody that they've done work that you recognize. And so you feel that they have a certain status. That doesn't mean they really understand the business of voiceover and it doesn't mean they're actually getting a lot of work today. So with social media, social media is marketing. You see what people want you to see and messages are shaped and crafted to carry out specific agendas. And so a lot of newer talent are intimidated into thinking, ‘well, if I do this, I'll be blackballed’ or ‘I'll never be able to get work or I won't be respected.’ The only thing that I look at, and this may sound really I don't mean this to sound well, I'll just say it. And that is all I care about is am I able to do a good enough job to provide a good living for my family? So if at the end of the day, the work that I do is of high enough quality that people value it to pay me for it and I'm able to do that to the degree that I can support my family and myself doing this, then that's all I care. I could care less about what other people think about me. And again, like the awards that I got through or the recognition of voices and trusted coach and all that means a lot to me, but I don't live for that. I don't need that recognition to be successful. You don't need recognition from anybody else to be successful because at the end of the day, you're the one who pays your bills. You're the one responsible for your family, not them.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:

Absolutely, yes. Everything you said, Bill, just I love how passionate you are about this. You can tell that you're an entrepreneur, and that's one of the things, I think, that will set a talent apart in this business, is the entrepreneurial spirit. If you really love what you're doing and you want to serve others using the gift that you have, that's your voice, and being able to bring words to life and influence people and guide them and inspire them and find amazing ways to make a difference beyond the generation that's hearing you, perhaps your voice will live on for decades and for 100 years, you don't know. So it's just like everything that you're doing has to be something that you do with purpose. And I think that also sets someone apart when they're doing voiceover is those who believe they are doing this for a reason.

Bill DeWees:

Yes. And being willing to accept the responsibility that goes with that, because I think have any kind of business, be it voiceover or anything, it's really an act of self-responsibility. You're saying, I'm not going to depend on anybody else for this. I'm not putting this on an employer. I'm not putting it on the government. I'm not even putting on an agent. It's on me. So if it's going to happen, I'm going to have to be the one to execute it. If it doesn't work, I'll take responsibility. I will figure it out. And if you're not willing to do that, then it's going to be tough. But if you are, you're going to grow as a person, and you'll be amazed at what you can accomplish.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:

Sweet. I don't know if I can top any of what you said with any other questions, Bill. We have spoken for a wonderful time, and we will have you back. Absolutely, for sure.

Bill DeWees:

I would love it.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:

Yeah. So what is the best way for people to follow what you're doing?

Bill DeWees:

Well, I've created a website. I think everybody will enjoy this. I've created a training video that anybody can watch at your convenience. I put it BillDeWeesLive.com, and it really goes into a little more detail of what it takes to create a voiceover business. It's just an overview. And so I would encourage you to go to BillDeWeesLive.com and it covers all of that. And then if you want to talk more and learn about more about my voiceover training, you have that opportunity as well. But I wanted to make sure I gave people something of value. If you want to take the time to come to the website, I'm going to give you usable information. So I would invite you to take advantage of that.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:

All right, well, thank you for that, Bill. And for anyone who is unfamiliar with how to spell Bill's last name, it is D-E-W-E-E-S. Thank you very much. That will be in our show notes as well, Bill. And thank you again for coming on the show.

Bill DeWees:

I appreciate what you have done, you and David, with Voices.com over the years, and you really led this revolution of making it possible for people to do this, and I just think it's an incredible thing. So thank you.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:

Thank you very much.

And that's the way we saw the world through the lens of Voiceover this week. Thank you for joining me and for following the show. Thank you to our special guest, Bill DeWees, for sharing his insight experiences and amazing tips for building a successful voiceover career. So many good tips in there. I really hope you're taking notes. So we're so happy, of course, that you are here listening to Vox Talk, and we can't wait to spend more time with you again soon. For Voices, I'm Stephanie Ciccarelli. Thank you to Geoff Bremner for producing Vox Talk, as he always does, and we are so looking forward to seeing you next week and, of course, having Bill DeWees back again. If you want to hear about anything else on the show, you can send me an email to [email protected], whether it's a topic or a guest you think would be a great person to hear from. Again, for Voices, I'm Stephanie Ciccarelli. Thank you for joining us, and we'll see you next time.